Having a big name in local community building seems to go against the rules. But my guest in this podcast, John McKnight is a big name in community building. In today’s conversation John talk about what exactly Asset Based Community Development is by definition, and the six assets or gifts he’s found people use in neighborhoods. This is just part one of our conversation - in the second half we dug a little more into the impact people with disabilities have had on John’s understanding of belonging in community, and what his take on the myth of that “small town past” circa 1950 America.
John has spent a lifetime dedicated to the common good. He’s a Korean War veteran, who worked under John F Kennedy to create the affirmative action program, he was the Director of the Midwest office of the United States Commission on Civil Rights before leaving the government to work in communities. Among his many works, he is the author of The Careless Society – a critique of professionalized social services and celebration of communities’ ability to heal themselves from within. Alongside Peter Block, John is the Co-Founder of the Asset Based Community Development Institute housed at DePaul University and Senior Associate of the Kettering Foundation. And it also helps to mention that John trained a young President Obama in Chicago when he was a Community Organizer. He later wrote one of Obama’s letters of recommendation to help him enter Law School!
I really hope this interview with John can help anyone on the path to building community in your own neighborhood!
Check out free trainings on how to be a connector at ABCD institute: https://resources.depaul.edu/abcd-institute/resources/Pages/tool-kit.aspx
Abundant Community Initiative in Edmonton, Canada: https://www.edmonton.ca/programs_services/for_communities/abundant-community-edmonton.aspx
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TRANSCRIPT:
John: My name is John McKnight and I’ve been interested in I suppose local communities, because I was raised in several. And my mother was an Irish Catholic. She was a person dedicated to the idea of family and local community as being really important. So I think I first started with her values then built around them rather than making it up myself. So I had my mother’s interest in local community and then at the university I learned a more conceptual way and practical way too.
Katie: What were some of your mom’s values that you carried forward?
John: Well, that we had an obligation to each other. She was not big on individualism. Our good is a common good, not just individual good.
That idea she had stuck with me that the basic question of: the good part of society doesn’t have to do as much with what I individually do but with what commitment I have to do things together with others.
She and my father were both, I think a little unusually for people who are from small town Ohio, committed to inclusiveness. I was raised with the idea that excluding people or discriminating people, especially because of their race at the time, was a bad thing. So that was another value I think I carried forward from both of them.
Katie: And your work and it sounds like your mom’s values and influence on you has impacted an entire movement of people around this idea of “asset based community development,” is that a phrase that you coined?
John: Well I’ve always had, since I went to the University after I left the government a colleague named Jody Kretzmann. He and I worked with each other and jointly created that framework for understanding what’s in a community.
Katie: I’ve heard a lot of different definitions of what asset-based community development is, I’ve heard Cormac Russell put it that it is not a model but a description of what happens when local people come together in relationship to make action.
John: And I think that’s right. It isn’t basically for most people a paradigm shift so that they pay more attention to the full half of people and their communities than they do to the empty half.
These needs and problems that you saw in people and neighborhoods was half the story - the empty half. You oughtta have a full half too.
So we, Jody and I decided that it would be a good thing if somebody did research that tried to identify what was there in neighborhoods.
Katie: As far as assets, as far as gifts?
John: Yeah, what was there we called “assets.” And that was based on four years of talking to people and interviewing them in neighborhoods all across Canada and the United States. And it turned out we had a couple thousand stories but there were about six things that appeared in these stories that people used. Quickly, they were first that people used the gifts and talents of people in the neighborhood. Not their defects and problems. Second they used their own groups/organizations and clubs to get things done. The third thing is they had local institutions that they used, like a library for instance, or a small business. Or some kind of agency that they had created that was local, not those that were downtown. And the fourth thing is they used resources, the physical, the environment, the ecology as a resource. The fifth thing was they were constantly involved in connecting those other four, we call that exchange, they were connecting things, exchanging things. And the last thing is they were reflecting and developing a culture by telling stories. So stories are the way they captured what they knew, what they valued, what they wanted to do, and became a part of their culture. So those are the six things that people used in neighborhoods. So we have emphasized the role of people who understand what the local assets or resources or ingredients are and take action to form groups, or themselves make connections among those assets. So that’s what asset development is. So that connecting has always been the central action. That’s different than leadership. A leader is at the front of the room, the connector is in the middle of the room, right?
Katie: And this is back to your mom’s value of a common good and also this differentiation between independence and interdependence, can you talk more about what you said with the leader is at the front of the room and a connector is at the middle of the room and how that comes into play?
John: Well a leader is a definition but one way of thinking about them is they are the public voice of community determination or will. So often they are people who know how to speak, who are vigorous, who have some kind of charisma, people look to them as being good representatives. Now, if you went back to the Civil Rights Movement and say who was the leader of the Civil Rights Movement? Well it was Dr. King. But the Civil Rights Movement was created significantly before Dr. King became a spokesperson or visible. It was very clear that he wasn’t leading the thousands and thousands of groups all over the country that had coalesced into a movement. He was their voice, he wasn’t speaking for himself. So that’s one role of a leader.
A connector on the other hand, is somebody who understands and has knowledge of all of the resources in a local community. They know about the gifts of a lot of people they belong to a lot of clubs and groups. They are very much aware of who the librarian is and who the druggist is. And they can see that there are vacant lots that could become assets, and made into a community gardens right? And they tend to be good storytellers as well. They connect those things or get groups of people together who will make that kind of a connection. So a word that I would use for them, a classic word is host or hostess. If you're giving a party and you’re inviting a bunch of people a host or hostess, might stand at the front door and greet people as they come in. And then say, “well you know Mary you play the piano and there are two people here who are musicians I’d like to introduce you,” take you over and introduce you. And then they go back. But what they’re doing is they’re connecting, they don’t join the musicians’ discussion so much but what they’re doing is putting people and other resources together and not leading that but precipitating them into relationships that result in action. So it is a role that satisfies a lot of people but is a role that is usually not recognized, people don’t, if I said what is a connector they wouldn't exactly know. So it doesn’t get a lot of recognition so it has to be people who are satisfied with the role of host or hostess. They get a joy out of putting people together rather than standing in front of them. Both you need, both are legitimate.
But what really builds community is people who multiply connections because what makes things better is connecting assets and that doesn’t happen on its own, usually, somebody or some group has to do it.
Katie: And the description that you gave of being at a dinner party and the host knowing enough about the guests coming in order to connect them is such a good way to describe how any of us can mobilize gifts in our neighborhood. You know whether that’s at a dinner party, or another type of an event that’s just the natural way and it seems like that could be an easy way to start, maybe?
John: I would say one other thing that we know is you can’t train people to be connectors. However, I’ve never seen a block in North America where there are not at least two to three connectors. They’re there - but you have to identify that and in a sense enhance and enable them to do their work on a broader scale then they tend to do naturally. So finding connectors on a block is a way to start and often you can find them by knocking on doors talking to somebody who’s on that block and asking them is there anybody here that you know that most people respect or if you have a party who will pull them together or if there were somebody who knows about everybody else, is there somebody like that around here, right? And you’re liable to find that what you’ve got is a connector. The wonderful thing about connectors is they just love to bring people together and that’s what was required for asset based community development.
Katie: Well and you just put voice to, not everybody is a connector, and so there are some people who might be best at finding the connectors. And the way that they do that is that - knocking on people’s doors and saying hey are you a connector? Or how would you say people approach that?
John: A city in North America that has gone furthest in this kind of development of connectors as the base for city life is Edmonton, Canada. And there one or two people began an initiative that they called the abundant community initiative. Because they knew about or were connectors, were good people to find... it takes one to know one, in a sense. So they were able by engaging people on another block to identify people who had this attribute and this became so popular, so many blocks and neighborhoods were interested in beginning to get people together that they hired half time a connector to be responsible for 50 blocks, finding local connectors on each block. And if you are really interested you can go to their website and they have a guide for connectors. How do they work? You’d find the best experience that anyone has ever had written down of how to go about finding and mobilizing local connectors.
Katie: Wonderful. What do you think gets in the way of people wanting to start this work? I mean you gave a great resource there and people can go check that out. At the end of the day I think there are still some things people find that get in the way even if they know exactly what to do next. What are the things you see most common?
John: Well, I think most common is a strange sort of hesitance or minor fear and that is to knock on the door of your neighbors. Usually you have to find somebody who is willing to go up to a neighbor’s door and knock on it and introduce themselves and begin to talk with them about their gifts and their talents, to invite them to maybe join them in talking to other neighbors about gifts and talents and what they could teach. And it is sometimes difficult to find a person who feels at ease just knocking on the door of their neighbors, they live on the block but still. That’s not a gift everybody has. So overcoming the kind of, I don’t like to use the word ‘fear’ but justifications people have for not knowing their neighbors, right. ‘I don’t want to interfere with their lives’ or ‘I don’t want to be turned down’ all those kinds of things are I think that the threshold limitation that you run into.
Katie: The threshold limitation, that’s interesting, does that mean that once you get past that there’s no more excuses?
John: Well I think that if you find a person or two who are willing to do that or willing to learn how to do that with your support, they are the starting point, they are the hosts and hostesses of the block. Some people call them the ‘block champion.’ In Edmonton they call them the block connector. But if you get that process going it breaks down fears that people have even of talking to somebody who comes to their front door. Because this is their neighbor and they see that their neighbor values them.
So you begin to shift the culture of: close your door, be an individual - and begin to see that no, you could open your door and together you can do more than you can do by yourself. It’s pretty basic, it’s a culture shift.
And it’s not.. It is all in action. It’s getting people together for a block party, it’s getting them to identify what they know that they would be willing to teach the young people on the block, it’s finding out what kinds of knowledge they have that they’d be willing to share or join together with others on the block to develop or enjoy. You might three or four people who walk for exercise. Well, why can’t they walk together, right? So a connector might find out first and know that somebody really enjoys walking and then introduces them to two other people on the block so they’re not each walking alone but they’re getting to know each other as they walk. And they become a node for which the connector can begin to ask people, do you exercise? Do you like to walk, you know there’s three people who start out every morning at seven o’clock, and let me connect you to them. That kind of a process. It’s people who are not thinking, I have something I’d like local people to do, I work for an agency or I’m in a program or I work for a government. It’s people who when they talk to somebody light up and say, “oh you know, you play the clarinet and I’ve just met four other people on the block who play different instruments, let’s get together and maybe we can have a block band.” So the joy isn’t in what they do, it’s what these people do. That’s a host or a hostess.
Katie: Yes and there’s so much research coming out now about how important it is for us to have connections. And that it leads to better well-being and your example of getting together to go on a walk, you know something like that can motivate us to be more consistent to getting out and exercising if we know we have other people who are meeting us at seven in the morning. And the reason I bring that up is I think so many of us say that we’re too busy for this kind of commitment to be involved in the neighborhood in any way - but if it’s something that you already naturally do, which is this example you gave. You’re already going on a walk, why not do it together?
John: Yeah, or why not play your instrument with others? Or if you spend too much of your time in childcare there are probably some other people on the block who feel the same way, maybe if we got together we could begin to split the load. Begin to think about how when I need some free time you can help me and vice versa. The reciprocal kind of relationship can grow from. Or a couple people are gardeners and they’re willing to teach kids in the local school and they’re willing to create a garden on a vacant lot in the neighborhood.
In a sense, if you really find out what gifts, skills, passions, knowledge people on the block have, they are waiting to share it.
And Edmonton has got more invitations going out than any other city in the United States or Canada. And that work they’re doing there has in a way revolutionized the city. The city now has as its community policy this initiative. We have seen so much more change, responsibility and creativity growing out of the connection of neighbors on a block that we couldn’t do anything with our programs or policies that would begin to match what they’re doing now.
Katie: Right and this is not a conglomerate of a developmental organization, this is a group of neighbors is your point?
John: That’s right.
Katie: Yeah, you know another thing that I hear people say is that there’s too much crime in my neighborhood and back to your earlier point about the empty half, people tend to focus on that first and say this is too big of a hurdle. So do you think there is an answer to that?
John: Well, if you get groups of people together any way and produce what scientists will call social capital these days, they are producing a kind of wealth and its measurable. So that you can compare people who are in active blocks with people in inactive blocks and say well what’s the difference in terms of major concerns people have? Just the fact that you are in a collective relationship of personal knowledge of each other produces much safer neighborhoods than the police can ever bring. And it goes that way with food, it goes that way with energy, it goes that way with children, it goes that way with care.
When we get together in small groups, locally and we do it not in programs somebody else is pushing from some institution but we do it because it grows out of our mutual interest, regardless of what the mutual interest is, we are going to be safer, healthier, wiser, and raise better children. So how would you like that?
Katie: Yeah, I think we would all like that. Yeah.
John: Right, so there’s all kind of evidence that the reason above all for getting people connected at the local level is that all good things in life are generated by their coming together.
Katie: Yes, and another way of saying that that I’ve heard you put is that care is not something that can be managed it’s freely given from the heart. We’ve almost just delegated too much responsibility to social services and so for police officers, to expect them to keep an entire community safe when we ourselves are not knowing our neighbors.
John: And you know who would make that point these days more strongly than anyone else? Police Chiefs.
Katie: Right.
John: I mean I just read in this morning’s paper here in Chicago, the police chief talking about how they can do just so much. And then it’s up to whether people are organized in their local blocks…